[讨论]:邵元祥與方衡祿之關係求證

thee · 发表于 2011-12-14 02:39:49

<div class="msgheader">QUOTE:</div><div class="msgborder"><b>以下是引用<i>林艺轩</i>在2011-12-12 19:14:55的发言：</b><br/>
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<div>好器. </div><br/></td>
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<div style="CLEAR: both; OVERFLOW: hidden"></div><img alt="发贴心情" src="http://www.zghmbbs.com/skins/Default/topicface/face1.gif"/> 林艺轩说: </tr></tbody></table></div>
<p>謝好評！</p>

thee · 发表于 2011-12-14 02:41:33

<div class="msgheader">QUOTE:</div><div class="msgborder"><b>以下是引用<i>朴居</i>在2011-12-13 12:36:41的发言：</b><br/>
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<div>方制，底托。 </div><br/></td>
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<div style="CLEAR: both; OVERFLOW: hidden"></div><img alt="发贴心情" src="http://www.zghmbbs.com/skins/Default/topicface/face1.gif"/> 朴居说: </tr></tbody></table></div>
<p>此說圓。底可托。<br/>謝兄。兄好。</p>

thee · 发表于 2011-12-14 02:42:14

<div class="msgheader">QUOTE:</div><div class="msgborder"><b>以下是引用<i>崇豫主人</i>在2011-12-13 12:57:37的发言：</b><br/>
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<div>学习并聆听，好贴 </div><br/></td>
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<div style="CLEAR: both; OVERFLOW: hidden"></div><img alt="发贴心情" src="http://www.zghmbbs.com/skins/Default/topicface/face1.gif"/> 崇豫主人说: </tr></tbody></table></div>
<p>黃版客氣。請指教為盼！</p>

thee · 发表于 2011-12-14 02:43:28

<div class="msgheader">QUOTE:</div><div class="msgborder"><b>以下是引用<i>壶徒</i>在2011-12-13 14:43:01的发言：</b><br/>
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<div class="msgheader">QUOTE:</div><div class="msgborder"><b>以下是引用<i>朴居</i>在2011-12-13 12:36:41的发言：</b><br/>
<div style="CLEAR: both; OVERFLOW: hidden"></div><img style="CURSOR: pointer" onclick="javascript:window.open(this.src);" alt="图片点击可在新窗口打开查看" src="http://www.zghmbbs.com/skins/Default/topicface/face1.gif" onload="imgresize(this);"/> 朴居说:
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<div>方制，底托。 </div><br/></td>
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<p></p>可能性大 </div><br/></td>
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<div style="CLEAR: both; OVERFLOW: hidden"></div><img alt="发贴心情" src="http://www.zghmbbs.com/skins/Default/topicface/face1.gif"/> 壶徒说: </tr></tbody></table></div>
<p>大可引據。</p>

thee · 发表于 2011-12-14 02:43:57

<div class="msgheader">QUOTE:</div><div class="msgborder"><b>以下是引用<i>yuweikun</i>在2011-12-13 16:40:29的发言：</b><br/>
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<div class="msgheader">QUOTE:</div><div class="msgborder"><b>以下是引用<i>壶徒</i>在2011-12-13 14:43:01的发言：</b><br/>
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<div class="msgheader">QUOTE:</div><div class="msgborder"><b>以下是引用<i>朴居</i>在2011-12-13 12:36:41的发言：</b><br/>
<div style="CLEAR: both; OVERFLOW: hidden"></div><img style="CURSOR: pointer" onclick="javascript:window.open(this.src);" alt="图片点击可在新窗口打开查看" src="http://www.zghmbbs.com/skins/Default/topicface/face1.gif" onload="imgresize(this);"/> 朴居说:
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<div>方制，底托。 </div><br/></td>
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<p></p>可能性大 </div><br/></td>
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<div style="CLEAR: both; OVERFLOW: hidden"></div><img alt="发贴心情" src="http://www.zghmbbs.com/skins/Default/topicface/face1.gif" onload="imgresize(this);"/> 壶徒说: </tr></tbody></table></div>
<p>认真学习，受益良多！<img title="" border="0" alt="" align="middle" src="http://www.zghmbbs.com/images/emot/em317.gif" onload="imgresize(this);" dypop="中国壶迷论坛"/></p>
<div align="right"><font color="#000066">[此贴子已经被作者于2011-12-13 16:42:32编辑过]</font></div></div><br/></td>
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<p>你我同學！</p>

thee · 发表于 2011-12-14 02:46:25

<div class="msgheader">QUOTE:</div><div class="msgborder"><b>以下是引用<i>藏壺</i>在2011-12-13 20:51:56的发言：</b><br/>
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<div class="msgheader">QUOTE:</div><div class="msgborder"><b>以下是引用<i>壶缘阁</i>在2011-12-13 9:33:35的发言：</b><br/>
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<p>方衡祿有在壶的内底盖章款的先例，和thee兄的章款疑似。</p>
<p>底款方衡祿，壶内底方衡祿，盖款衡祿+树叶型款。</p></div><br/></td>
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<div style="CLEAR: both; OVERFLOW: hidden"></div><img alt="发贴心情" src="http://www.zghmbbs.com/skins/Default/topicface/face1.gif" onload="imgresize(this);"/> 壶缘阁说: </tr></tbody></table></div>
<p>上過手壺緣兄手上這壺亦是好品,還請上帖分享~<br/>另請談兄拍一下壺底款,以便進一步探討!</p></div><br/></td>
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<div style="CLEAR: both; OVERFLOW: hidden"></div><img alt="发贴心情" src="http://www.zghmbbs.com/skins/Default/topicface/face1.gif"/> 藏壺说: </tr></tbody></table></div>
<p>壺底款已上了，為“荊溪邵元祥製”。<br/>經藏壺哥哥這一说，更令我企盼一觀壺緣兄的壺！</p>

檀香阁 · 发表于 2011-12-12 19:40:51

<p>邵元祥跟方衡禄都是乾隆时期人，有没有合作的可能？</p>

藏壺 · 发表于 2011-12-13 20:51:56

<div class="msgheader">QUOTE:</div><div class="msgborder"><b>以下是引用<i>壶缘阁</i>在2011-12-13 9:33:35的发言：</b><br/>
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<p>方衡祿有在壶的内底盖章款的先例，和thee兄的章款疑似。</p>
<p>底款方衡祿，壶内底方衡祿，盖款衡祿+树叶型款。</p></div><br/></td>
<td background="images/dispbbs/center_r.gif"></td>
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<div style="CLEAR: both; OVERFLOW: hidden"></div><img alt="发贴心情" src="http://www.zghmbbs.com/skins/Default/topicface/face1.gif"/> 壶缘阁说: </tr></tbody></table></div>
<p>上過手壺緣兄手上這壺亦是好品,還請上帖分享~<br/>另請談兄拍一下壺底款,以便進一步探討!</p>

五彩青花 · 发表于 2011-12-12 19:59:58

<div class="msgheader">QUOTE:</div><div class="msgborder"><b>以下是引用<i>yuweikun</i>在2011-12-12 19:40:51的发言：</b><br/>
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<p>邵元祥跟方衡禄都是乾隆时期人，有没有合作的可能？</p></div><br/></td>
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<p>有可能，但个人浅见，为托款</p>

壶之铭 · 发表于 2011-12-12 20:26:35

pj · 发表于 2011-12-12 20:30:07

pj · 发表于 2011-12-12 20:30:42

<div class="msgheader">QUOTE:</div><div class="msgborder"><b>以下是引用<i>石鼎</i>在2011-12-12 17:26:02的发言：</b><br/>
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<div>小弟沒有這一類的器物，只好進來搬張板凳學習！ </div><br/></td>
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<div style="CLEAR: both; OVERFLOW: hidden"></div><img alt="发贴心情" src="http://www.zghmbbs.com/skins/Default/topicface/face1.gif"/> 石鼎说: </tr></tbody></table></div>
<p><font face="Verdana">也<font face="Verdana">跟</font><font face="Verdana">着<font face="Verdana">学</font><font face="Verdana">习<font face="Verdana">！</font></font></font></font></p>

檀香阁 · 发表于 2011-12-13 16:40:29

<div class="msgheader">QUOTE:</div><div class="msgborder"><b>以下是引用<i>壶徒</i>在2011-12-13 14:43:01的发言：</b><br/>
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<div class="msgheader">QUOTE:</div><div class="msgborder"><b>以下是引用<i>朴居</i>在2011-12-13 12:36:41的发言：</b><br/>
<div style="CLEAR: both; OVERFLOW: hidden"></div><img style="CURSOR: pointer" onload="imgresize(this);" onclick="javascript:window.open(this.src);" alt="图片点击可在新窗口打开查看" src="http://www.zghmbbs.com/skins/Default/topicface/face1.gif"/> 朴居说:
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<div>方制，底托。 </div><br/></td>
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<p></p>可能性大 </div><br/></td>
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<div style="CLEAR: both; OVERFLOW: hidden"></div><img alt="发贴心情" src="http://www.zghmbbs.com/skins/Default/topicface/face1.gif"/> 壶徒说: </tr></tbody></table></div>
<p>认真学习，受益良多！

</p>

[此贴子已经被作者于2011-12-13 16:42:32编辑过]

檀香阁 · 发表于 2011-12-14 09:32:35

<div class="msgheader">QUOTE:</div><div class="msgborder"><b>以下是引用<i>thee</i>在2011-12-14 2:46:25的发言：</b><br/>
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<div class="msgheader">QUOTE:</div><div class="msgborder"><b>以下是引用<i>藏壺</i>在2011-12-13 20:51:56的发言：</b><br/>
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<div class="msgheader">QUOTE:</div><div class="msgborder"><b>以下是引用<i>壶缘阁</i>在2011-12-13 9:33:35的发言：</b><br/>
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<p>方衡祿有在壶的内底盖章款的先例，和thee兄的章款疑似。</p>
<p>底款方衡祿，壶内底方衡祿，盖款衡祿+树叶型款。</p></div><br/></td>
<td background="images/dispbbs/center_r.gif"></td>
<tr>
<td height="20" background="images/dispbbs/foot_l.gif">
<td background="images/dispbbs/foot_c.gif">
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<div style="CLEAR: both; OVERFLOW: hidden"></div><img onload="imgresize(this);" alt="发贴心情" src="http://www.zghmbbs.com/skins/Default/topicface/face1.gif"/> 壶缘阁说: </tr></tbody></table></div>
<p>上過手壺緣兄手上這壺亦是好品,還請上帖分享~<br/>另請談兄拍一下壺底款,以便進一步探討!</p></div><br/></td>
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<div style="CLEAR: both; OVERFLOW: hidden"></div><img onload="imgresize(this);" alt="发贴心情" src="http://www.zghmbbs.com/skins/Default/topicface/face1.gif"/> 藏壺说: </tr></tbody></table></div>
<p>壺底款已上了，為“荊溪邵元祥製”。<br/>經藏壺哥哥這一说，更令我企盼一觀壺緣兄的壺！</p></div><br/></td>
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<div style="CLEAR: both; OVERFLOW: hidden"></div><img alt="发贴心情" src="http://www.zghmbbs.com/skins/Default/topicface/face1.gif"/> thee 说: </tr></tbody></table></div>
<p>期待。</p>

壶徒 · 发表于 2011-12-15 11:08:46

<div class="msgheader">QUOTE:</div><div class="msgborder"><b>以下是引用<i>thee</i>在2011-12-14 2:43:28的发言：</b><br/>

<div style="clear:both; overflow:hidden;"></div><img src="skins/Default/topicface/face1.gif" alt="发贴心情"/> thee 说:
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<div><div class="msgheader">QUOTE:</div><div class="msgborder"><b>以下是引用<i>壶徒</i>在2011-12-13 14:43:01的发言：</b><br/>
<div style="CLEAR: both; OVERFLOW: hidden"></div><img alt="发贴心情" src="http://www.zghmbbs.com/skins/Default/topicface/face1.gif" /> 壶徒说: <table style="TABLE-LAYOUT: fixed; WORD-BREAK: break-all" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" width="100%">
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<div class="msgheader">QUOTE:</div><div class="msgborder"><b>以下是引用<i>朴居</i>在2011-12-13 12:36:41的发言：</b><br/>
<div style="CLEAR: both; OVERFLOW: hidden"></div><img style="CURSOR: pointer" alt="图片点击可在新窗口打开查看" src="http://www.zghmbbs.com/skins/Default/topicface/face1.gif" /> 朴居说:
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<div>方制，底托。 </div><br/></td>
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<p></p>可能性大 </div><br/></td>
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<p>大可引據。</p>
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</div><p></p>紫砂器署款是其特点之一，所载自龚春即始，倒也讲究知识产权，而清吴骞著《阳羡名陶录》中又有：“今世所传大彬壶，亦有仲芳作之，大彬见赏而自署款识者。时人语曰：‘李大瓶时大名’”。可见紫砂初期就有代工自署款之举，只是不知其时李仲芳见己之佳作落其师之款又作何想？也许也会想在器之不起眼处打上己款以示抗争吧，呵呵。而紫砂作为手工艺品，作坊式的生产亦是其特点之一，黄健亮先生曾有文论述多件孟臣款器许为“孟臣”作坊出品，可见由于市场的需要，早期就有名家作坊出现，而作坊款与作者款同署一器亦成为一规则，作坊款多见于底等显眼处，作者（打工者）款钤于盖，鋬等不显眼处，如“**秘（监）制”（也可能是托款）或陶器行加作者款等，此风一直延续至“中国宜兴”加作者盖款，也有落双人款的，如友廷加寿珍，寿珍加盘根，此类器许是合作，但应多因护犊之情，或也有如“鸣远”加“寅春”款的，为托款加作者款。此件虽为残器，观之应为蟹管流莲子大壶器形，此类器多见邵氏款，如邵元祥，邵形然等，鲜见他姓款器，似为邵家独门器形，邵氏一脉为紫砂名门，代有出类拔萃者，从记载及传器看，邵元祥应为三代名家，其因此而成为邵氏作坊的一个名牌是有可能的，故宫博物院藏有一邵元祥款提梁，为典型的邵氏提梁器形，有趣的是，壶身有缪嘉玉题刻款，盖面有“醇邸雅玩”，图版上看，应非窑后刻，述为醇亲王府茶膳房日用品，清末托款，如无误，邵元祥似已成为邵氏作坊的一个品牌；方家亦有才人，从传器看，方世英，方衡禄，方曾三等也应属名手，方衡禄活动期应与邵元祥相近，但少见方家做此器形，且邵家之名应高于方家，邵元祥制自家器形而打方氏款似不可思议，而方氏学艺于邵家，或因生活所需工作于邵氏作坊，做邵家器形，自信不平而钤己款于不显眼之壶内，似还合理。另，此壶底的内外钤印的位置不知如何？

[此贴子已经被作者于2011-12-15 11:12:21编辑过]

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