设为首页收藏本站|繁體中文

中国壶迷俱乐部

 找回密码
 立即注册
查看: 2733|回复: 10

[讨论][原创]臆说时大彬的生卒年

[复制链接]
字体大小: 正常 放大
发表于 2010-2-14 22:06:43 | 显示全部楼层 |阅读模式
<font color="#ff0000"><font size="6"><font face="Verdana">祝</font><font face="Verdana">壶<font face="Verdana">友</font><font face="Verdana">新<font face="Verdana">春<font face="Verdana">愉<font face="Verdana">悦</font><font face="Verdana">!<font face="Verdana">身</font><font face="Verdana">心<font face="Verdana">康</font><font face="Verdana">健<font face="Verdana">!</font><font face="Verdana">虎<font face="Verdana">年</font><font face="Verdana">万<font face="Verdana">事</font><font face="Verdana">如<font face="Verdana">意</font><font face="Verdana">!</font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font>&nbsp; </font></font>
<p align="center"><br/>臆说时大彬生卒年</p><br/>
<p>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 欲知时大彬之生卒年,先理清其“游娄东”的时间段是关键。然而诸多有关论述紫砂的典籍中,均未提及其“游娄东” 的确切时间,至使后人对其生卒年分歧较大。幸好在其它书籍中却有了线索,即&lt;明&gt;江盈科所著《谐史》中有这样一段文字:“宜兴县人时大彬,居恒巾服游士夫间。性巧,能制磁罐,极其精工,号曰时瓶。有与市者,一金一颗。郡县亦贵之,重其人。会当岁考,时之子亦与院试,然文尚未成,学院陈公笑曰:‘时某人试,其父一贯之力也。’” </p>
<p>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; “居恒巾服游士夫间”正是其“游娄东”时的生动形象的肖像写照,且是携妻带子去的,并长期住下来(居恒) ,换上文人服装(巾服 ,相当于今天的唐装与春秋帽),游走于官宦文人之间,“闻眉公与琅琊太原诸公品茶试茶之论,乃作小壶。”为创品牌,保持高价(一金一颗) ,就要确保质量,“雅自矜重,遇有不惬意者碎之”。由是获得郡县官吏与文人的认可与尊重,广交社会上层名流,其子才有机会进入某大姓人家的家塾读书,就像《红楼梦》中秦钟随宝玉去贾氏家塾读书一样,当然,拜师费是不能免的,此时的时家也是承担得起的,或者送一把小砂壶,权当拜师礼,先生也会特别高兴的。数年后,“会当岁考” , 郡县官吏准许其子以本地人的身份参加“院试” ,所以就有了学院陈公“时某人试,其父一贯之力也” 之谐语。陈公谓谁?或是陈眉公亦未可知。</p>
<p>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 按其子读书并参加“院试” 的年龄可推断出时大彬“游娄东”时的年龄应是35岁至40岁这六年。</p>
<p>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 万历二十年(1592年),江盈科(1553----1605) 中进士,同年八月任长洲令(江苏吴县县令),万历二十六年(1598年) 离任,任职六年,有政声。《谐史》中的这段文字,是其任期间的“随记” 还是“追记” ?按“随记” 推算,时大彬40岁时,其子参加“院试”应在万历二十年(1592) -----万历二十五年(1597),则时大彬应生于嘉靖三十一年(1552)-----嘉靖三十六年(1557) ;倘是“追记” ,则时大彬应生于嘉靖三十年(1551)以前。所以,时大彬的生年应定在嘉靖三十年(1551年)前后,较为合适。按其73岁(圣人坎)寿终正寝,则其卒年应在天启三年(1623年)前后。所以,其卒年应定在天启初年较为实际。</p>

帖子的最近访客

 楼主| 发表于 2010-2-16 10:47:24 | 显示全部楼层
<font face="Verdana">多</font><font face="Verdana">谢<font face="Verdana">醉</font><font face="Verdana">壶<font face="Verdana">楼</font><font face="Verdana">先<font face="Verdana">生</font><font face="Verdana">关<font face="Verdana">注</font><font face="Verdana">。<br/><br/><font face="Verdana">主</font><font face="Verdana">观<font face="Verdana">推</font><font face="Verdana">测<font face="Verdana">的</font><font face="Verdana">说<font face="Verdana">法<font face="Verdana">未</font><font face="Verdana">必<font face="Verdana">正</font><font face="Verdana">确<font face="Verdana">,</font><font face="Verdana">很<font face="Verdana">想</font>"<font face="Verdana">抛</font><font face="Verdana">砖<font face="Verdana">引</font><font face="Verdana">玉"<font face="Verdana">,</font><font face="Verdana">共<font face="Verdana">同</font><font face="Verdana">探<font face="Verdana">讨</font><font face="Verdana">。</font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font>
 楼主| 发表于 2010-2-17 18:26:41 | 显示全部楼层
<font face="Verdana">杨</font><font face="Verdana">先<font face="Verdana">生</font><font face="Verdana">:<font face="Verdana">您</font><font face="Verdana">好<font face="Verdana">。</font><br/><font face="Verdana">可</font><font face="Verdana">在<font face="Verdana">百<font face="Verdana">度</font><font face="Verdana">中<font face="Verdana">搜</font>&lt;&lt;<font face="Verdana">雪</font><font face="Verdana">涛<font face="Verdana">小</font><font face="Verdana">说&gt;&gt;<font face="Verdana">明</font>.<font face="Verdana">江</font><font face="Verdana">盈<font face="Verdana">科</font><font face="Verdana">著<font face="Verdana">,</font><font face="Verdana">可<font face="Verdana">邮</font><font face="Verdana">购<font face="Verdana">,</font><font face="Verdana">也<font face="Verdana">可</font><font face="Verdana">去<font face="Verdana">图</font><font face="Verdana">书<font face="Verdana">馆</font><font face="Verdana">查<font face="Verdana">阅</font><font face="Verdana">。<br/><font face="Verdana">雪</font><font face="Verdana">涛<font face="Verdana">小<font face="Verdana">说</font>(<font face="Verdana">外</font><font face="Verdana">四<font face="Verdana">种</font>)<font face="Verdana">包</font><font face="Verdana">括<font face="Verdana">:&lt;&lt;<font face="Verdana">雪</font><font face="Verdana">涛<font face="Verdana">小</font><font face="Verdana">说&gt;&gt;<font face="Verdana">、</font>&lt;&lt;<font face="Verdana">谈</font><font face="Verdana">丛&gt;&gt;<font face="Verdana">、</font>&lt;&lt;<font face="Verdana">谈</font><font face="Verdana">言&gt;&gt;<font face="Verdana">、</font>&lt;&lt;<font face="Verdana">闻</font><font face="Verdana">纪&gt;&gt;<font face="Verdana">、</font>&lt;&lt;<font face="Verdana">谐</font><font face="Verdana">史&gt;&gt;<font face="Verdana">。</font><br/><font face="Verdana">该</font><font face="Verdana">段<font face="Verdana">文</font><font face="Verdana">字<font face="Verdana">在</font>&lt;&lt;<font face="Verdana">谐</font><font face="Verdana">史&gt;&gt;<font face="Verdana">中</font><font face="Verdana">。</font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font>
发表于 2010-2-14 22:19:39 | 显示全部楼层
<p><font face="Verdana">学习</font></p>
 楼主| 发表于 2010-2-15 00:31:32 | 显示全部楼层
<font face="Verdana">多</font><font face="Verdana">谢<font face="Verdana">面<font face="Verdana">南</font><font face="Verdana">先<font face="Verdana">生</font><font face="Verdana">关<font face="Verdana">注</font><font face="Verdana">。<br/><font face="Verdana">有</font><font face="Verdana">机<font face="Verdana">会</font><font face="Verdana">一<font face="Verdana">定<font face="Verdana">携</font><font face="Verdana">壶<font face="Verdana">登</font><font face="Verdana">门<font face="Verdana">求</font><font face="Verdana">教<font face="Verdana">。</font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font>
发表于 2010-2-15 00:42:24 | 显示全部楼层
学习!!!
发表于 2010-2-16 13:17:44 | 显示全部楼层
&nbsp;
<p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: break-all; LINE-HEIGHT: 18pt; TEXT-ALIGN: left; mso-pagination: widow-orphan" align="left"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; LETTER-SPACING: 0.4pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Arial; mso-hansi-font-family: Arial; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial; mso-font-kerning: 0pt">谢谢兄提供的史料和探讨</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; LETTER-SPACING: 0.4pt; mso-font-kerning: 0pt"><?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: break-all; LINE-HEIGHT: 18pt; TEXT-ALIGN: left; mso-pagination: widow-orphan" align="left"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; LETTER-SPACING: 0.4pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Arial; mso-hansi-font-family: Arial; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial; mso-font-kerning: 0pt">兄能看到《谐史》,能否查查有关资料,研究一下这部书是什么时候写的?</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; LETTER-SPACING: 0.4pt; mso-font-kerning: 0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: break-all; LINE-HEIGHT: 18pt; TEXT-ALIGN: left; mso-pagination: widow-orphan" align="left"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: ??; mso-hansi-font-family: ??">江盈科的记载,我以为很重要,其理由有两点:</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: ??"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: break-all; LINE-HEIGHT: 18pt; TEXT-ALIGN: left; mso-pagination: widow-orphan" align="left"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: ??; mso-hansi-font-family: ??">其一,许次纾于</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: ??">1597</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: ??; mso-hansi-font-family: ??">年写作《茶疏》,在许次纾去世之后,才在朋友的帮助下于</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: ??">1607</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: ??; mso-hansi-font-family: ??">年刊行。因之,许次纾说:“近日饶州所造,极不堪用。往时龚春茶壶,近日时彬所制,大为时人宝惜”,江盈科于</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: ??">1605</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: ??; mso-hansi-font-family: ??">年去世,他是看不到许次纾写的《茶疏》的。那么,江盈科是和许次纾在不同地点,发现了时大彬的价值,作了不同的记载,这说明江盈科的记载极为重要。</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: ??"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: break-all; LINE-HEIGHT: 18pt; TEXT-ALIGN: left; mso-pagination: widow-orphan" align="left"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: ??; mso-hansi-font-family: ??">其二一点,在过去的紫砂史料中,仅有一句</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-font-kerning: 0pt">“</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Arial; mso-hansi-font-family: Arial; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial; mso-font-kerning: 0pt">游娄东“的记载,并没有具体的史料,也没有其它的史料,因之,不少专家都认为时大彬去没去</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-font-kerning: 0pt"> </span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Arial; mso-hansi-font-family: Arial; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial; mso-font-kerning: 0pt">“娄东”,和文人有没有接触都是历史之谜!江盈科的记载证明时大彬确实“游过娄东”。</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-font-kerning: 0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: break-all; LINE-HEIGHT: 18pt; TEXT-ALIGN: left; mso-pagination: widow-orphan" align="left"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Arial; mso-hansi-font-family: Arial; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial; mso-font-kerning: 0pt">故此,我很愿意和您合作研究此事。</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-font-kerning: 0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: break-all; LINE-HEIGHT: 18pt; TEXT-ALIGN: left; mso-pagination: widow-orphan" align="left"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Arial; mso-hansi-font-family: Arial; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial; mso-font-kerning: 0pt">如蒙同意能否把书借我一用,共同探讨之。冒昧了!</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; LETTER-SPACING: 0.4pt; mso-font-kerning: 0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: break-all; TEXT-INDENT: 25.5pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 18pt; TEXT-ALIGN: left; mso-pagination: widow-orphan" align="left"><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; LETTER-SPACING: 0.4pt; mso-font-kerning: 0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: break-all; TEXT-INDENT: 15pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 150%; TEXT-ALIGN: left; mso-pagination: widow-orphan" align="left"><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; LINE-HEIGHT: 150%; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-font-kerning: 0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
发表于 2010-2-17 08:41:33 | 显示全部楼层
&nbsp;
<p class="MsoNormal" style="TEXT-INDENT: 24pt; mso-char-indent-count: 2.0"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: 'Times New="New"  Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: 'Times New="New"  Roman'">著名考古学家、陶瓷史家<?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comffice:smarttags" /><st1ersonName w:st="on" productid="宋伯胤">宋伯胤</st1ersonName>先生就是“时大彬游娄东”历史的怀疑论者,如在他的名著《说陶瓷》中便有鲜明的观点。</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="TEXT-INDENT: 24pt; mso-char-indent-count: 2.0"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: 'Times New="New"  Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: 'Times New="New"  Roman'">“在中国陶瓷史论中,屡见不鲜的是时大彬和陈继儒等文人学士的交往,以及将大壶改为小壶的趣闻,。其实,这事很值得推敲。大壶、小壶的界定也是很难划分的。因此,如果陈继儒等人与时大彬“品茶试茶之论”的结果只此一端,我看不应称为“文人参与”。(见宋伯胤</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">2003</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: 'Times New="New"  Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: 'Times New="New"  Roman'">年版专著《说陶瓷》</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">147</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: 'Times New="New"  Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: 'Times New="New"  Roman'">页)</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="TEXT-INDENT: 24pt; mso-char-indent-count: 2.0"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: 'Times New="New"  Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: 'Times New="New"  Roman'">他把时大彬游娄东列为趣闻,并用了“只此一端”的用语,足见其怀疑之重。把其原文及其出处摘出,供兄参考。</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="WORD-BREAK: break-all; LINE-HEIGHT: 150%; TEXT-ALIGN: left; mso-pagination: widow-orphan" align="left"><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; LINE-HEIGHT: 150%; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-font-kerning: 0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
发表于 2010-2-17 22:10:41 | 显示全部楼层
<p>谢谢!!!</p>
发表于 2010-2-25 14:44:07 | 显示全部楼层
提示: 作者被禁止或删除 内容自动屏蔽
发表于 2010-3-4 19:26:01 | 显示全部楼层
提示: 作者被禁止或删除 内容自动屏蔽
您需要登录后才可以回帖 登录 | 立即注册

本版积分规则

申请友链|小黑屋|Archiver|手机版|传奇温州mir2wz|rWanBoy Studios|中国壶迷俱乐部 ( 浙ICP备12017229号-5 公安备案105031|105258 )|人工智能    

GMT+8, 2024-10-1 20:24 , Processed in 1.471860 second(s), 40 queries .

Powered by Discuz! X3.4

© 2001-2013 Comsenz Inc.

快速回复 返回顶部 返回列表